Friday, August 25: Our New Ambassador
For some reason, blogger was unavailable from my Australian ISP for the last week so I had trouble posting...hopefully this is solved now.
First of all, if you haven't yet listened to (or heard about) the following, if you've got a moment I suggest you listen to the interview with WSOP main even winner Jamie Gold at bigpoker.ca (with which I have no affiliation) -- I was left utterly speechless. Even speaking as a guy who has admittedly never been accused of being too modest, I was practically slack-jawed listening to that interview. This could either be very good for poker in the upcoming year, or very, very bad. We've been blessed with 3 outstanding ambassadors for the game in recent years in the form of Raymer, Moneymaker, and Hachem (in that order, in my own opinion), but this Gold character is a truly horse of a different color. We'll see what comes of this after the ESPN broadcasts...
One of my favorite guilty pleasures on 2+2 is the "Brags, Bad Beats, and Variance" forums. Funny, if you had asked me about how worthwhile such a forum would have been before they created it last year, I would have told you that it was a pretty dumb idea, and would likely be populated by nothing but "online poker is rigged!!" and "check out how bad this beat was" posts. And it IS a dumb idea...but also pretty entertaining to read at times, discussing people's upswings and downswings, and it's somewhat therapeutic when you can read about just how savagely Father Variance can attack even the best players. Whereas most of the other forums retain at least SOME air of decorum and posting etiquette (yes, just a little), the BBV forum is a completely unvarnished smorgasborg of bravado, insult-humor, and pissing contests; a pseudo-Freudian and unapologetic window into posters' poker "ids", and it's occasionally a fun read. One point the forum has really driven home is that the 300-big-bet rule of thumb is very much antiquated. It might be a function of the games getting slightly more difficult, or more aggressive, but I subscribe largely to the belief that it was never really true to begin with, and those suffering downswings greater than the 300BB axiom simply weren't in any rush to divulge it publicly, lest they be labeled big fish. But the BBV forum is now rife with examples that even very good players can and do suffer through 500 to even 1,000 (!) big-bet swoons. Makes me feel a tad better about my recent high-stakes frustrations...I never really calculated just how many BBs it was (my jumps between LHE and NL made that a little complicated), but it was well in excess of the 300BB marker.
I still read the strategy forums every once in a while, but can never seem to muster up the energy to post there...there's just such a thick veil of complete bullshit that permeates nearly every thread. An overwhelming majority of posters simply have no idea what they're talking about, and -- as I've written several times before -- the day my poker education took a huge step forward was the day I stopped treating clueless strategy advice posted by 18-year old Clearasil babies on 2p2 as poker gospel, and realized that I was already playing better than nearly all of them. If you're winning even just 1BB/100, be confident enough in your abilities to realize that you're more skilled than 90% of 2p2'ers, and filter everything you read through your own internal bullshit-meter. One of the biggest problems in strategy threads I believe is the philosophy that there is one, single, correct (or at least most correct) action for every decision point in every hand. That simply isn't true; in fact, an outstanding suggestion that was unfortunately never really adopted on a wide enough scale was the proposal that strategy advice should never be doled out in the form of "this is a clear raise, call, fold", but rather should be given in the form of a ratio like x:y:z corresponding to the percentage of times -- in situations like that -- that one should call:raise:fold. For examnple, imagine a situation where it's folded around to the blinds, the SB completes, the BB raises with AK and the SB calls. Now the flop comes K,7,2 rainbow and the SB leads out with a bet. The BB, sitting there with a very strong holding might make a post on 2+2 wondering how to extract the most from the SB who is unwittingly betting into a very strong hand. The forums are full of knuckle-draggers arguing about the virtues of raising vs. just calling in order to raise on later streets, as though one were correct, and the other were patently retarded. I think a far more illuminating way of approaching the question is an "action ratio" presented in the form of something like 75:25:0, indicating that in situations like this the BB should raise 75% of the time, just call 25%, and never fold. Other, more complex scenarios might produce action rations that look something like 60:30:10.? I think this more appropriately reflects the metagame features of a game of incomplete information; there are substantial advantages to changing up one's style of play, and the stark reality of the situation is that without knowing your opponent's hole cards, there is hardly EVER one clearly-correct course of action in a hand (unless, for example, you hold the nuts and have your opponent betting into you on the river.) Will that "action ratio" proposal ever gain any momentum?? I doubt it; first of all, it relies on the premise that a certain specific scenario could be played out an infinite number of times (or at least with sufficient frequency to be able to employ the ratio with any measure of fidelity). This isn't a Turbo Texas Hold'em environment where one situation can be replayed over-and-over. It's also admittedly difficult to recognize when one decision is 'identical' to a previous one. But most of all, I doubt most 2p2'ers will be ever have the humility to even contemplate that there is nearly always more than one 'correct' course of action -- it's apparently way more fun to respond with "If you think this is a clear raise, you need your head examined, you herpes-ridden douchenozzle."
First of all, if you haven't yet listened to (or heard about) the following, if you've got a moment I suggest you listen to the interview with WSOP main even winner Jamie Gold at bigpoker.ca (with which I have no affiliation) -- I was left utterly speechless. Even speaking as a guy who has admittedly never been accused of being too modest, I was practically slack-jawed listening to that interview. This could either be very good for poker in the upcoming year, or very, very bad. We've been blessed with 3 outstanding ambassadors for the game in recent years in the form of Raymer, Moneymaker, and Hachem (in that order, in my own opinion), but this Gold character is a truly horse of a different color. We'll see what comes of this after the ESPN broadcasts...
One of my favorite guilty pleasures on 2+2 is the "Brags, Bad Beats, and Variance" forums. Funny, if you had asked me about how worthwhile such a forum would have been before they created it last year, I would have told you that it was a pretty dumb idea, and would likely be populated by nothing but "online poker is rigged!!" and "check out how bad this beat was" posts. And it IS a dumb idea...but also pretty entertaining to read at times, discussing people's upswings and downswings, and it's somewhat therapeutic when you can read about just how savagely Father Variance can attack even the best players. Whereas most of the other forums retain at least SOME air of decorum and posting etiquette (yes, just a little), the BBV forum is a completely unvarnished smorgasborg of bravado, insult-humor, and pissing contests; a pseudo-Freudian and unapologetic window into posters' poker "ids", and it's occasionally a fun read. One point the forum has really driven home is that the 300-big-bet rule of thumb is very much antiquated. It might be a function of the games getting slightly more difficult, or more aggressive, but I subscribe largely to the belief that it was never really true to begin with, and those suffering downswings greater than the 300BB axiom simply weren't in any rush to divulge it publicly, lest they be labeled big fish. But the BBV forum is now rife with examples that even very good players can and do suffer through 500 to even 1,000 (!) big-bet swoons. Makes me feel a tad better about my recent high-stakes frustrations...I never really calculated just how many BBs it was (my jumps between LHE and NL made that a little complicated), but it was well in excess of the 300BB marker.
I still read the strategy forums every once in a while, but can never seem to muster up the energy to post there...there's just such a thick veil of complete bullshit that permeates nearly every thread. An overwhelming majority of posters simply have no idea what they're talking about, and -- as I've written several times before -- the day my poker education took a huge step forward was the day I stopped treating clueless strategy advice posted by 18-year old Clearasil babies on 2p2 as poker gospel, and realized that I was already playing better than nearly all of them. If you're winning even just 1BB/100, be confident enough in your abilities to realize that you're more skilled than 90% of 2p2'ers, and filter everything you read through your own internal bullshit-meter. One of the biggest problems in strategy threads I believe is the philosophy that there is one, single, correct (or at least most correct) action for every decision point in every hand. That simply isn't true; in fact, an outstanding suggestion that was unfortunately never really adopted on a wide enough scale was the proposal that strategy advice should never be doled out in the form of "this is a clear raise, call, fold", but rather should be given in the form of a ratio like x:y:z corresponding to the percentage of times -- in situations like that -- that one should call:raise:fold. For examnple, imagine a situation where it's folded around to the blinds, the SB completes, the BB raises with AK and the SB calls. Now the flop comes K,7,2 rainbow and the SB leads out with a bet. The BB, sitting there with a very strong holding might make a post on 2+2 wondering how to extract the most from the SB who is unwittingly betting into a very strong hand. The forums are full of knuckle-draggers arguing about the virtues of raising vs. just calling in order to raise on later streets, as though one were correct, and the other were patently retarded. I think a far more illuminating way of approaching the question is an "action ratio" presented in the form of something like 75:25:0, indicating that in situations like this the BB should raise 75% of the time, just call 25%, and never fold. Other, more complex scenarios might produce action rations that look something like 60:30:10.? I think this more appropriately reflects the metagame features of a game of incomplete information; there are substantial advantages to changing up one's style of play, and the stark reality of the situation is that without knowing your opponent's hole cards, there is hardly EVER one clearly-correct course of action in a hand (unless, for example, you hold the nuts and have your opponent betting into you on the river.) Will that "action ratio" proposal ever gain any momentum?? I doubt it; first of all, it relies on the premise that a certain specific scenario could be played out an infinite number of times (or at least with sufficient frequency to be able to employ the ratio with any measure of fidelity). This isn't a Turbo Texas Hold'em environment where one situation can be replayed over-and-over. It's also admittedly difficult to recognize when one decision is 'identical' to a previous one. But most of all, I doubt most 2p2'ers will be ever have the humility to even contemplate that there is nearly always more than one 'correct' course of action -- it's apparently way more fun to respond with "If you think this is a clear raise, you need your head examined, you herpes-ridden douchenozzle."




38 Comments:
I couldn't finish listening to the Gold interview. I wanted to punch Jamie in his fat luckbox face.
I've rarely read the strategy forums lately. It's hard to wade through the 90% of questionable information to get to the 10% of interesting material. Some forums are better than others, I guess, but I get tired of "how did I play this?" threads with the answers of "standard." or "raise x amount here" without any specific reason why. I've been playing NL lately, but I am beginning to find that my paltry 1BB/100 days of limit poker wasn't that bad.
I really get the post maybe back in 2005 when you said the trick with 2 plus 2, was to sift through the 90% of bs there.
Most poker situations should be answered with ratios, however, many hands require one clear action that may only be readily apparent to experienced players.
Expert players can often be helpful in spotting a clear error, especially in NL, especially with a clear read/statistics on an opponent.
Great blog buddy, just caught up on some of the archives. Finally one worth reading! Looking forward to more about poker downunder
omg listening to that guy talk....
I really really hate his bragging, makes him look so stupid to say over and over again "it was the greatest show of poker talent ever."
what a total asshole
listened to the interview last night - i thought it was sooo funny.
i'm all for being self-confident, but that is just crazy.
I'll give him credit for challenging Hellmuth to a $1 million heads up with their own money.
He seems to have a big ego, but what do you expect from a Hollywood agent. Isn't Hollywood all about massive egos.
Yeah, Jamie Gold. After reading this post I listened to the interview expecting a total train wreck. It wasn't THAT bad. He is a little short on humility though. Jamie is obviously an exuberant character who has little use for a broader perspective on his victory; for example a meaningful comparison of his achievement versus those of Doyle Brunson, Stu Ungar, Johnny Chan et al. But hey, its his parade and I don't want to piss on it.
I see three possible outcomes regarding Jamie's victory. Firstly, a lot of people will be inspired by this motor-mouthed wanker into believing that they too could reach the same pinnacle of success. Secondly, as was mentioned in the interview, Jamie's Hollywood connection, however questionable, will raise the profile of the game. And thirdly his hyper-LAG playing style will spawn a multitude of imitators at the lower limits leaving us TAGs to weather the storm and rake in the chips!
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